What went wrong?

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MattB

New member
Being new to the world of smoking my first few attempts have been "by the book" - the Traeger cook book that came with the grill. Last Friday I did baby back ribs and they were great. On Saturday we went for beef ribs and again great and on both occasions the meat fell of the bone.
Last night I tried two racks of Costco's St Louis ribs (I know a lot of ribs but family insisted on it!!!!) and followed the 3-2-1 method. I also removed as much of the membrane as I could. Although the meat was very tasty it certainly did not fall off the bone and had to be bitten off. Even cutting the ribs up required a bit of effort. Could anyone help why the meat was so different in texture? The cook timing was per the 3-2-1, I'm pretty certain the foil boat was tight and didn't loose liquid and then I used some sauce for the final part. I also let the ribs rest in foil after cooking. Could it be that I had two racks instead of one and needed more cooking or is it simply St Louis ribs are different to baby backs? Thanks guys,
 
Quadman750

Quadman750

New member
My experience with ribs is if they are tough they needed a little more cooking time, but you don't want to cook too long after the foiling as they might dry out. Hopefully someone else will chime in, I have never cooked St. Louis style, I only do baby backs.
 
scooter

scooter

Moderator
They were undercooked. There are many ways to determine when ribs are done but too many of then require a "feel" that must be learned that isn't helpful to someone just starting out. Those methods are the toothpick test, the bend test, pulling two bones apart test etc. The best way I found in the beginning to tell (and still rely on it from time to time is using a thermapen probed between the bones. KCBS bite "pull off the bone" is about 195F but since you and your family like them fall off the bone then you'll be looking for approx 205F+ between the bones.
You will learn in time how to feel the ribs to gauge tenderness by using one of the above mentioned "feel" type tests. Like just about every other BBQ'd meat, it's about a feel to determine when meat is done and that feel has to be learned through time and practice. You will in time change to using your temp probe to judge tenderness by how easy/hard it goes into the meat, not by the temp reading it's giving you. Until you get that knowledge learned, the temp between the bones truly was a huge help for me to get my ribs close. It's not a perfect test though and can be thrown off a bit by how much, or how little, fat marbling is in your ribs. A lower than normal fat marbling content will give you a lower reading. Like I said, it's not perfect but until you get "the feel" it'll get you close.
Here's a story of why you can't always rely on your temp gauge, even a thermapen. I was helping my catering crew at a big event. We had about 50 to 60 pork butts going on the cooker for an overnight cook. I volunteered to stay onsite to monitor through the night. Early in the morning I checked for tenderness with a thermapen and while they felt tender and "done" to me, the thermapen was reading low 80's in IT. That's not a "done" temp to me but I figured something about these butts was different and I went with the feel of them instead and pulled them off the cooker as surely there could be nothing wrong with the thermapen! It's a good thing I did! Later in the day I checked the thermapen and it was reading 15+ degrees low compared to another thermapen.
Just a quick story to illustrate how important it will become to you to learn to use "feel" to judge when meat is done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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MattB

New member
Thanks Scooter this makes sense. I've used a digital thermometer for lamb and steaks but didn't consider it for ribs. I've got family coming out from the UK this month and they're bringing me a thermapen - a third of the price over there!!!
I'm actually in Danville - I see you're in the Bay Area too. Txs again.
 
scooter

scooter

Moderator
You're welcome. After you've done a bunch of racks of ribs, you'll get the feel for it. What we use in competition to check for doneness is a version of the bend test which is basically to open up the foil to expose the rack then pick the rack up from the middle with our hands and feel for tenderness and watch for how the ends droop and check for the the splitting of the skin on top. It's a judgment from experience. You'll get the feel over time once you've had the experience. It's part of the journey.
I grew up in Walnut Creek and now live in Antioch so we live pretty close!
 
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MattB

New member
One final question. Your very first line said they were under-cooked. Which part of the 3-2-1 should I have left them for longer? Smoke, the foil wrap or the dry out part?
Am I right in thinking the foil or wet part adds tenderness with more time? If so does more smoking just add flavor or will it cook the meat as well? And the dry out phase is just that? You only take as long as needed to get the source to "cure"? Sorry way more than one question but it got me thinking as I was typing!!!! Txs again,
 
scooter

scooter

Moderator
You didn't mention at what temp you cooked them. Unless you were under 225F then 2 hours is way too long to be in foil, IMO. And make sure when you foil them you remove all the air pockets or you'll just be steaming them.
I think the 3-2-1 was meant for a 210-225ish cook temp. I never go 3-2-1. It takes too long at those low temps and I prefer to cook my ribs hotter like 275 and only foil them for maybe 30 mins or until they're just tender. The shorter, hotter cook renders more fat and retains moisture better. I prefer my ribs with a KCBS bite where the meat comes off the bone, not fall off the bone. In my mind, fall off is overdone and the flavor of the pork changes.
 
Big Poppa

Big Poppa

Administrator
The three two one is one of those recipes that gets way too much use...It sucks.

Before this gets out of hand....thermapens are great but understand that if I pulled my ribs at 195 they wouldnt be done because I cook at a high temp and use convection....currently in comp my ribs are taking two hours and 40 minutes total...why? because the method and cooker you use determines when its done... I have a lot of different cookers and they all require a different technique a thermapen is a reference point. Much that is written is going very old school...When I was starting I met the Legend Mike Mills and toured his kitchen...he cooks at between 195 to 210 on old traditional pits...his finishing temp on brisket was 185.... I cooked a big party last year with Chris Lilly and he and Ken Hess can touch the pork and tell when it is exactly perfect. I pulled my brisket last week in comp (3rd place damn) and it was 210 internal temp...so the lower temp you cook something the lower the rendered cooked meats final internal temp will be....so lets forget about the thermapen....(still use it but you need to figure out the following first)

The very best way to cook is to discover your recipes and develop feel and 'sync' with your meats, cooker and self. I taught a class recently and had four butts on the cooker...I told the class that I could tell them what each butts internal temp was after being in the foil....I was spot on with one off by one degree on two and three degrees on the fourth...If Matt Dalton is here I showed him that this weekend on his new cooker....I knew his temp and cooker and told him that I could tell him the internal temp of the butts by putting the thermapen in the foiled butts without looking at the display...I was right on on one and one degree off on the other....OK a little lucky but this long winded diatribe applies to music, art...everything You can learn to paint by numbers or you can learn to paint.

So it involves practice and study. How do you start? First off decide how important bark is for your personal tastes. In most meats it is not important to me I prefer tenderness and more even cooks. If you like bark dont foil...you can spritz to keep the meat more tender or a water pan. I foil most times as I dont like waiting through the stall and want more evenly tender meat.

So lets talk about foil...when do you foil? its not 3 maybe not 2 maybe its 1 it depends on the color of the meat...cook to color first...think a nice rich mahogany color...nice deep reddish brown. Foil then. Just foiling dry meat will lead to some inconsistent cooks...try a dash of apple juice...some butter or parkay...maybe some brown sugar and parkay...maybe a little butter sauce and apple juice...create the little bit of liquid that you like. This is the trail and error part...once in foil cook them and check every half hour by lifting one end of the ribs if they are board like keep on cooking...when you start to feel some flex you are getting close....if you want fall off the bone when it bends really easily you are there. Your third thing to consider is if you want to set your sauce....if you are going to set your sauce you are going to want to pull the ribs when they are just a TAD tighter.

At each one of these stages then use your thermapen and keep a log.... for example you may find that your foil color averages 170 internal....your desired finishing temp may be 205...now the thermometer is a back up and reference guide that is second to the feel of actually cooking.

So if you see me on the comp trail and notice that I have wired thermometers sticking out of my cookers towards the end of the cook it is because they are there to help me...but they are secondary to what Im doing.
I hope this helps...Im going to use this as a sticky after I edit for general cooking
 
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MattB

New member
scooter said:
So Matt, how's it feel to drink from a fire hose?? :)
Click to expand...

LOL! I'm loving it. Always been into the BBQ side of life but never had the skill or the equipment to be able to do what I'm learning to do now. Just the taste of my first baby backs and beef ribs got me hooked. I'll take every bit of instruction and advice I can get but appreciate this is an art nit a science. Nice to know I can ask all my dumb ass questions here and get solid advice and not flamed. Keep it coming!
 
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Flipthe Bird

New member
This is good stuff, Matt i'm right with you..screwed up my 1st cook of ribs also...Looks like the 3-2-1 stinks...live and learn!
 
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