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Need help from competitors - comment cards

scooter

Moderator
I'm involved in teaching an Advanced Judging class put on by the CBBQA. Our purpose is to help judges get a deeper understanding of the sport and product. There's around 7 instructors each teaching a different topic. The class will be taught in the next 2 weekends so time is of the essence.
In the module I'm teaching I want to touch on writing constructive and useful comment cards and would love some real examples of comment cards you've received over the years that you felt were not helpful. Please PM or email me any pictures of the comment cards or simply what the judge wrote would be fine.
Thank you in advance.
 

Big Poppa

Administrator
I rarely get them...Seriously the only one that I got was from Nor cal...ahhahah years ago.. verbose and meaningless...The most important thing is that if you give someone 6 or below and dont turn in a comment card you are perceived as a death vendor judge....It is super important to let the cook know why they got that score.....especially if the rest of the table differs.
 

scooter

Moderator
Yes, that's the push for more informative comment cards, not just for the 5's and below but for the 7's and 8's telling the cook how to turn the 7 or 8 into a 9. The problem is time. As you know we only have about 30 minutes between entries arriving which makes extensive comment card writing a challenge. We'll be stressing the importance of writing clear and informative cards so cooks will be armed with more usable knowledge.
 

Big Poppa

Administrator
OK Scooter here is tough love.... It is preposterous for a judge to think that they can turn 8's into nines....just as a cook ant tell a judge to turn and 8 into a 9. I think that the best thing you can teach the judges is to stay current with the rules. I helped create the BBQScores judging survey. We didnt release everything yet..but we proved that judges will judge down for garnish, no thighs, no burnt ends, We also found that the longer the judge the more their rules differ that what is published. There is no standard from where to start....do you start with a 6 and judge up....a nine and judge down? Saucing brisket slices will improve your odds as some judges mark down if they arent sauced...some mark down if they are but the net swing is to sauce your slices.
 

scooter

Moderator
Many interesting points.

It is preposterous for a judge to think that they can turn 8's into nines..
This one has me puzzled. It's up to the judge to assign any number within the scoring range that best represents the entries qualities. So your assertion it's preposterous for a judge to tell a cook what it would have taken to change their score of 8 to a 9 makes no sense to me.

I think that the best thing you can teach the judges is to stay current with the rules.
We're taking the opportunity to teach that and so much more. We have 44 students signed up for this Saturday's class in Alameda. At least 10 have never judged before.

I helped create the BBQScores judging survey. We didnt release everything yet
Never hear of any judging survey. Would like to have participated.

but we proved that judges will judge down for garnish, no thighs, no burnt ends
Agreed. There are judges that do those things. We're addressing all of those points and many more. Kelly's class module on myths covers all of those.

There is no standard from where to start....do you start with a 6 and judge up....a nine and judge down?
Again, I agree, there's no standard. I was taught everything starts with a 9 and have stuck with it.

Saucing brisket slices will improve your odds as some judges mark down if they arent sauced...some mark down if they are but the net swing is to sauce your slices.
Some subjectivity will always be involved in the sport but the winning teams keep winning so something is working.
 
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jimsbarbecue

Moderator
I like the idea of on going training . I agree that 6 or lower requires a comment card and that it is constructive.

By the way I hate garnish and wish it would go away,it is a meat contest!
 

Big Poppa

Administrator
Many interesting points.


This one has me puzzled. It's up to the judge to assign any number within the scoring range that best represents the entries qualities. So your assertion it's preposterous for a judge to tell a cook what it would have taken to change their score of 8 to a 9 makes no sense to me.

Because if it was so easy to do that you judges would be better cooks....Sorry to be rough here but you have cooked on a regional team You have had some success...great but really you think that six judges have ANY idea of the details and processes involved to get it where you got it....You havent cooked enough comps....


We're taking the opportunity to teach that and so much more. We have 44 students signed up for this Saturday's class in Alameda. At least 10 have never judged before.


Never hear of any judging survey. Would like to have participated.

Here you are teaching judging and we had over 500 respond....it was on a ton of social media....the connected judges saw it.


Agreed. There are judges that do those things. We're addressing all of those points and many more. Kelly's class module on myths covers all of those.


Again, I agree, there's no standard. I was taught everything starts with a 9 and have stuck with it.


Some subjectivity will always be involved in the sport but the winning teams keep winning so something is working.

Really You think thats it? Its the fact that you keep the angel tables and get to throw away the bad tables...donny bray threw 138 boxes away...kept 40 Darren Warth threw 120 boxes out They are world class cooks but the race is not a batting average race it is a marathon that rewards cooking 40 events. Also the only qualification for a 300 point contest is team count and no team strength.
 

Big Brother Smoke

New member
I think, live judging would help cooks get higher scores or help a cook turn an eight into a 9.
I have found, letting a winning cook taste my food moves me a long the curve at lite speed.
 

scooter

Moderator
This one has me puzzled. It's up to the judge to assign any number within the scoring range that best represents the entries qualities. So your assertion it's preposterous for a judge to tell a cook what it would have taken to change their score of 8 to a 9 makes no sense to me.

Because if it was so easy to do that you judges would be better cooks....Sorry to be rough here but you have cooked on a regional team You have had some success...great but really you think that six judges have ANY idea of the details and processes involved to get it where you got it....You havent cooked enough comps....

I never meant that a judge would tell a cook what processes to change or what recipe to follow. Clearly you've totally misunderstood my point.
Judges provide feedback on what they perceive is wrong or right with an entry to justify their score. It's up to the cook to figure out what to change on their end. And it's up to the cook to decide what feedback they will heed and which they will mentally discard.

Here you are teaching judging and we had over 500 respond....it was on a ton of social media....the connected judges saw it.
Are you discounting my judging skills and my ability to teach what I've learned over the last 5 years because I'm not "connected" as you imply? Seriously?
 

Big Poppa

Administrator
no scooter....Im saying that it surprises me that you missed all the chances to participate in the survey....the connected judges saw it That doesnt have anything to do with the quality of your judging....it was everywhere and the topic on all bbq forums but here! I obviously think you are a good judge...Im not sure how much you judged last year as I didnt run into you but it is an ever evolving process.

Yes the judge can tell you what he/she thought....but he cant turn it into 9. The danger of the changing your process based on one comment card is that since it is blind you can make a big change for a weak judge...if you knew the judge and knew they were current with the most recent profiles taht were hitting or textures then you would be all ears.

So that brings up the whole comment card....most cooks like them so they can bitch about it and show it to their peers. If I got the same comments from differetn judges I would absolutely pay attention.
 

JD McGee

New member
Comment cards are the norm for PNWBA...very rarely do we not get them. We get six cards from six judges for all four meats. We get the good, bad, and ugly during the course of the season. For the most part all the comments seems to be sincere and are very informative. Occasionally we get the off the wall or derogatory one...but they are few and far between. I will say this...comment cards are an extremely valuable tool for the cook. If you pay attention to them the judges will tell you what works...and what doesn't. They are worth their weight in gold! :cool:
 

JD McGee

New member
That's too bad Sterling...they can be a real eye opener for teams...and head judges keeping an eye out for poor judging.
 

scooter

Moderator
JD, I used the 2 comments from your friend as examples in the class of how hastily written comment cards can be misunderstood if care is not taken when writing them.
 
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